Saturday, March 8, 2014

Of miracles and debates, Part IV

In this, the final part of my Facebook exchange with my theist sister-in-law, you will see just how easily apologists talk out of both sides of their mouths. In the previous posts, you'll note how, without provocation, she offered philosophy and science as examples of ways to prove her stance, but once those arguments are refuted rather easily, she will now (after pointing out the obvious that she's neither a philosopher nor a scientist even though it was her decision to bring those disciplines into the fray) revert back to faith, to where the argument always boils down (and from where it always begins). First, she tried to prove god existed, then will say matter-of-factly that "of course" her entire hole-filled argument (if you can call it an argument) is based on believing something with zero evidence.

So, we pick up these final quick jabs with her showing her ignorance to the Facebook paradigm after I told her I was glad my brother hadn't censored my remarks or deleted the post so that others could see just how poor her stance was and how petty her actions were.

HER: Who is everyone? As far as I can see its you, me and (your brother). You're quest for fame in the atheist world probably won't come from this little back and forth.

Of course my argument is based on faith. That is MY stance. You want to debate science and philosophy and I am neither a scientist or a philosopher. I am a believer who, with my free will, chooses to believe by pure faith, something you will never understand or accept. I believe it's a level of thinking you may not be mature enough to understand. I'm trying to figure out why you keep trying to convince me, or anyone else for that matter, otherwise. Why are you so hell bent on making me prove that God exists when I consider something a miracle? What about that bothers you so much? You can answer or not answer; I'm hiding the post, so I won't see it anyway. And just because I can, I will continue to pray for you.

(At the risk of repeating myself in my below post, isn't it so typical that she plans to hide her head in the sand, and to give up when confronted with someone who has an answer for every piece of effluvium she floats into the atmosphere? And the endless insults are made ironic when she mentions my lack of maturity.)

ME: I guess you don’t understand how Facebook works. Everyone who is friends with you, (my brother) and me can see this. Just because they aren’t commenting doesn’t mean they aren’t reading it. They are likely smart enough not to get involved. I’ll ignore your “fame” remark, as it is merely another poor attempt at an insult and misrepresentation.

Let’s remember who brought religion (miracles, divine intervention), science and philosophy (first cause) into this discussion. In fact, you knew exactly what would happen when you butted in and posted your “miracle” comment to my harmless story about Roosevelt, and even though we agreed not to debate anymore, you couldn’t help yourself. I had every right to tell you what my stance was on your “miracle” claim since you brought it up first.

Funny how you utter freewill almost in the same breath as divine intervention, yet you can’t defend how one rules out the other.

Maturity insults, really? You think it takes maturity to believe in an invisible being who can read your mind? I put away my superstitions and belief in Santa Claus when I was a child. Remind me again who’s the one with the immature mind?

I understand your faith; it’s a crutch and soother for your fear of the unknown, and you’re right, I can’t sink to that level. And I’m fine if you need that, but when you direct your post in a forum at me about your superstitions, I’m going to call you out on it.

I’m not “hell bent” on making you prove your god exists because we both know you can’t. I’m saying you can’t prove the bible-bullet story was a miracle, because the only way you could is to present your god to everyone and have him tell us. You can’t, and any time I can expose to even one person that religion's completely irrational thinking, I will.

It doesn’t surprise me that you’ll hide this post, as that’s common for believers when confronted with reason, to bury their heads in the sand. Just like when you hurl insults at me instead of dealing with the issues at hand. But I’m still posting this because (1) I know you can’t let me have the last word on anything as evidenced by your behavior in our prior debates and on here, and (2) there is the possibility someone else is reading this and I want them to see just how petty you’ve been, calling me arrogant, a hypocrite, an egomaniac, pompous and bringing up pedophilia (of all things) because you didn’t even comprehend the context of the comment, which was homosexuality.

Oh, and if you’re comparing those two things then you’re no better than that bible-thumping backwoods bigoted head of Duck Dynasty that I know you support. You’ll pray for me? Thanks. I’ll write a letter to Santa for you. Both endeavors will have the EXACT same effect.

(At the end of my post I told my brother if he wanted to unfriend me -- for the second time, by the way -- I told him I had no problem with it, but he didn't. And right on cue, she didn't hide the post and she had to try to get in the last word, but I wouldn't let her.)

HER: I love you and God loves you. See you tomorrow.

ME: I love you, too, and Santa says you're on his naughty list right now.

(In the end, it wasn't surprising to me that we had reverted back at breakneck speed to the inflamed attitudes that derailed our debates. I have since seen her twice and our conversations have been perfectly fine, as if these things never happened. But it's always great to force a theist to admit they have no leg to stand on, that their arguments are tired and weak, and that they need to result to ad hominem attacks when faced with a completely confident and rational defense.) 


  1. Oh Man I love that. ...... and I'll write a letter to Santa for you. I'm stealing that and calling it my own.

  2. By all means. Glad you got a kick out of it.